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Belinda Kwan: I’m giving you all a very warm welcome of today’s event titled, New Media Well-Being.
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Today’s discussion will explore the intersection of new media, health, and community, with a focus on community-led strategies for well-being and cultural access in digital spaces.
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Our panelists will critically examine digital harm reduction and cultural revitalization, highlighting new media approaches to fostering community health and culture.
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We're pleased to have Samito of FEZIHAUS with us here today.
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I'll pass it over to Samito to talk about the program in context for today's event. Over to you
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Samito: Thanks, Belinda. Hi, everyone. My name is Samito. My pronouns are he/him, and I work in music and I'm a founder at FEZIHAUS.
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So this event is presented jointly as part of two projects, Terra Firma and Conversas.
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Terra Firma is a project led by InterAccess and Tangled Art + Disability, dedicated to strengthening the technologically mediated relationships between arts organizations and Black, Indigenous,
and Disability Justice (BIDJ)-centred communities.
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It seeks to support, amplify, and learn from the stated communities’ techno-cultural knowledge stewardship, accessibility, and harm reduction models.
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It aims to apply such learnings by prototyping and implementing organizational tools in post-consultation and collaboration with the stated com, stated communities, sorry, distributing resources and sharing knowledge through artistic, cultural, and technological ecosystems on Turtle Island and beyond.
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Conversas: Who’s Missing In This Room? is a project by FEZIHAUS™.
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Supported by the Canada Council for the Arts’ Strategic Innovation Fund, this series of conversations aims to address pressing issues in the arts sector throughout 2024. Given current challenges, including scrutiny on DEI investments, understanding equity within the context of decolonization is crucial.
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However, defining equity beyond compliance measures remains a big challenge. To address these, Conversas: Who’s Missing In This Room?, delves deeper, unpacking the multifaceted nature of equity across artistic practices and organizational structures, fostering a more inclusive and equitable Canadian arts sector.
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Back to you Belinda.
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Mel: Belinda, you're muted.
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Belinda Kwan: Thank you. [laughter]
Thank you, Samito. Thank you, Mel.
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Before I begin, I'd like to acknowledge that the land on which InterAccess operates has been the site
of human activity for 15,000 years.
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Toronto is in the 'Dish with One Spoon Territory'. The Dish with One Spoon is a treaty between the Anishinaabeg, Mississaugas, and Haudenosaunee that bound them to share the territory and protect the land.
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Subsequent Indigenous Nations and peoples, Europeans, and all newcomers have been invited into this treaty in the spirit of peace, friendship, and respect.
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We acknowledge this treaty, but we are also critical about the ways in which it continues to be breached by settlers and newcomers.
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In the state of affairs, we commit to the work of renewed Indigenous sovereignty. The meeting place of Toronto is still home to many Indigenous people from across Turtle Island, and we are both grateful and responsible for the ways we meet together, learn, and engage in creative practices here. We also acknowledge all displaced communities who are not settlers and those whose ancestors and community members were forcibly displaced and made to work on these lands. We acknowledge the Black communities that have been and continue to be central to community building, anti-racism, and anti-colonialism here and beyond.
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InterAccess continues striving to provide support and advocacy for individuals and communities who actively face the most entrenched systemic barriers across historical, cultural, socioeconomic, and political realms.
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Since this is an online event, we do encourage attendees to share their own land acknowledgments in the chat and to reflect on the ways that digital infrastructure and territory have specific relationships to land and the past, present, and future dynamics of colonization and decolonization.
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So without further ado, let's begin this panel discussion.
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So, I'm super pleased to have these wonderful artists with me today. I'm wondering if each of you can briefly introduce your work and how it relates to the intersection of new media, community well-being, and cultural access. What brought you to this intersection and what drives your current projects?
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So I'm going to pass this question off, to... or are there any takers, first of all?
Anyone really wanting to go first?
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If not, I'm going to pick on Anélia. [laughter]
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Anélia Victor: Nice... Hello, everyone. My name is Anélia. I go by they/them and I'm located here in Toronto. My art practice evolves around... I'm a mixed media textile artist, so I focus a lot on the connection between our bodies, our memories, and as well as... nature itself and how our connections go towards, together...
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On my last recent project, I was doing body sculptures and documenting herbal Caribbean stories from various queer Caribbean people in Toronto, Halifax, and all over Canada. And basically, trying to understand how our connection to our ancestry and how nature has always brought us back, even though we have been... located in various parts outside of where our family has been coming from.
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And so, learning about how a lot of folks have been relying on technology to find stories about who they are, about the, plants that have more connections towards them, when there might be people in their own lives, in their own families, or in their communities that are no longer with us to ask those questions...And seeing how important archiving has been for especially these types of stories and how we nurture these stories...
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since a lot of... for our cultures and Caribbean people, it's oral stories is how we pass along things. And so when no one is there to hear those oral stories or someone passed on to another life, how do we continue to keep those stories here in our present world for others to, to know?
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And so it was important for me in this project to archive those specific stories people were allowing me to be a part of... and as well as kind of providing it to those in the community and having those interactions and seeing how those stories can evolve and the archiving process can be evolved.
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Belinda Kwan: Thank you so much for that introduction and for your work as well.
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I'm now going to pass it over to Sapphire because I know you two have been having
conversations and riffing off each other's work.
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Sapphire Woods: Thank you. My name is Sapphire. As Belinda mentioned, my pronouns are also they/them. I guess an image description as well, so I am a brown skin person, trans non-binary person. I'm wearing brown glasses. I have short textured hair, a white wall. I'm sitting next to a very bright window. So if you're seeing like... a glow, it's a window.[laughter]
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So yes, my work is based in the virtual world, but it's very much... connected and rooted with the desire to stay rooted in the natural world. So similarly to Anélia's work, it is about archiving and holding close some of these stories that go along with, these very alive, food traditions that we have, herbs and plants that are familiar to not just our culture, but the way that we take care of each other through generations. So this virtual garden, I guess... very vulgarizing it... [laughter]
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The concept is taking 3D scans of plants and herbs as they're beginning to grow and putting them into an online or virtual world. So, web-based is very important to me because there aren't a lot of people that I know in my communities. And again, when I say my communities, I mean Caribbean across generations. So intergenerational access is a big thing for me. And all you would need to access this garden is internet and a computer or a personal device. And to be able to enter into this world... and take in knowledge, stories, and also visually see - what do these plants look like?
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A large barrier that I had, that inspired me or drove me into this project was the fact that I had all these ideas and really big passion for gardening and being with plants and in nature. And finding that I actually couldn't go to them, like accessing these spaces was a barrier for me. So I was thinking,
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"What are some ways to bring that to, myself and then to my community?", and "How to house not just the stories, but like the practical how to tend and care to, these alive things, including ourselves in, a different way?".
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So that's my work. Thank you.
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Belinda Kwan: Thank you so much for that.
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I'm now going to pass it on to Amanda, who also goes by Lynx. So if you see me flipping between those names, that's why. And I want, to have Amanda introduce themselves next because Amanda has a similar project, called Digital Constellations, which also relates to kind of knowledge keeping and, revitalization in the digital space. So please go ahead.
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Amanda Amour-Lynx: Hi, everybody. Again, my name is Amanda. I also go by Lynx.
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And I tend to introduce myself in the language first. So I'll begin that way. [begins Spirit Name] I'm sorry [chuckle] [continues Spirit Name]
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Oh my god. Can you cut that out? [laughter] I've never butchered it that bad before.
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[Spirit Name] *check* Montreal *check* Guelph, Ontario. *check* Two-Spirit.
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My name is... my spirit name is "The One Who Leaves Footprints". And I just explained in the language that my home community is Wagmatcook First Nation, which is part of Cape Breton Island. And... I was born in Montreal, Quebec, and I'm currently living in Guelph, which a place name is Attawandaron, which is part of Treaty 3 territory.
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And... I position myself that way as a, as part of... an identity based practice of language reclamation.
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I come from a mixed identity as an urban Indigenous person that has a Scottish background as well. So visually, I have, dyed blonde hair, but... medium skin tone and dark features. And I'm in a, [laughter] in my living room right now sitting at a computer chair with some, with some plants and cozy items behind myself.
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So, the question was, about, Digital Constellations and the projects that I work on. I currently practice as a cultural facilitator and interdisciplinary visual artist that spans across a few disciplines, but recent projects that I've been working on include a digital community building and new media project as part of the organization that I work... for, and alongside my... colleague on the panel, Mel Compton.
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It was a curation of youth cultural creators, who placed, work into a virtual reality platform called STYLY, which is open source. And in that project, we provided a five week capacity building and professional development curriculum using an e-learning module. And in there, we looked at things like project management, proposal writing, business skills, how to navigate grants and institutions as an Indigenous person engaging in traditional practices that, have a timeline into the present, although is commonly seen in museums and antiquity.
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So a lot of conversations follow the concept of repatriation, looking at creative commons, and using free... tools to elevate their own... cultural creation or artworks, or business, goals, learning how to photograph and document products and projects for online stores and art portfolios, as well as helpful tips on income tax and budgeting.
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And this was a cumulative project that... originated from concluded programs that we had done on regalius skill making that we delivered virtually during the pandemic for relief, but also to provide access to... youth who are identifying within the Two-Spirit identity.
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I didn't provide my pronouns in the beginning of my introduction, but I go by they/them or the L'nu or
Mi'kmaq term nekm, which is a gender neutral... personal pronoun that precedes the colonial terminologies.
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But in, the regalia skills making program, we looked at gender fluid and anti-colonial frameworks of ceremony and tradition, renaming and creating a safer space to navigate that is outside of... the traditional spaces that youth have reported back saying that they... are seeking more inclusive spaces and needing access in that way.
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There were one-on-one mentorship provided, recorded videos, peer-to-peer sharing and flexible learning, including slides and just kind of chilling out in a cultural
context.
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So that was sort of what that project was about. And... in of the recent projects, I've been exploring using social media for language revitalization, using Instagram stickers and *check* making with visual markers or language that people can use when they're accessing online spaces.
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And then upcoming that I haven't quite started on yet is the project called Manufactured Ecosystems, which is put on by the Guelph Arts Council and the University of Guelph. And that's an international project exploring the potential for nature-based knowledge, techno knowledge and imagined knowledge to forecast the future of climate adaptation. So there's a partnership between, artists and people that are in, different environmental studies fields and sciences to explore how... these types of adaptations can assist in... climate change and ecosystems that are thriving. And I don't really know what that will become yet, but I, I'm looking forward to beginning that.
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And I'll pass it on to whomever wants to go next.
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Belinda Kwan: It's just Mel left. So, but thank you so much. Amanda, there's a lot there that I'm hoping to dive into much more, because there's lots of overlap.
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But, I'd love Mel to introduce herself because I know you've been working really closely with Lynx as well to make these projects happen at Indigenous Youth Roots. But also not
to take away from Lynx's individual projects as well. I should contextualize that, but I know you two have been working closely specifically with IYR, Indigenous have been working closely specifically with IYR, Indigenous Youth Roots. Please go ahead.
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Mel Compton: Good afternoon everyone. So my name is Mel. I am also L'nu Mi'kmaq from the East Coast, Scottish as well. I am, I was born and raised in Toronto, so I'm definitely an urban person through and through. I, I guess I'll give a description about myself and then go into some of the projects.
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So, I'm a white presenting femme. I have dark brown eyes, dark brown hair that is way past my chest. The left side of my head is shaved. Currently in my kitchen [laughter] because I got kicked out of some of my original room spaces. So you've got some tan covers behind me with a bed sheet because that's just what it is. [laughter] My Zoom doesn't want to blur, so you've got a bed sheet covering my coffee space behind me that's a little messy. And I'm just coming off of vacation, so I'm still in vacation mode, so I haven't quite started cleaning up. Things are everywhere. I have not unpacked.
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Anyways, just to echo a little bit of what Lynx talked about, is I supported them on the project of the Digital Constellations as well as the regalia programs, that have since closed. We're hoping in future iterations we can continue to grow the programs.
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And essentially that came out of a community call out to our Two-Spirit and Indigenous queer folks to say, "What do you need during the pandemic?", and also, "What does this look like when cultural spaces that should feel safe for you and should be accessible don't feel safe and accessible due to, whatever the reason and primarily due to how they identify?".
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And so what we had gathered from that community call out was that cultural spaces just aren't safe because they're very binary in the cultural teachings that are discussed in the way that they are presented.
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Obviously too, through the pandemic, we know everything sort of had to jump online. So we were really sitting with, not only our team and our departments, but with cultural leaders, and folks that we trust and really do know that they uplift everybody and who they are. I don't want to say safe, but safer folks, because obviously we can indirectly cause harm. So, safer people that we knew that had really good intentions and had a really good heart around the work that we were trying to do and accomplish.
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And in sitting with that, like Lynx mentioned, was removing the binary terms from a lot of the regalia conversations. So there was often things like, men's traditional and women's traditional or, men's fancy women's fancy. And so moving that around to, "What are the actual titles of those dances?". And primarily it was hunter traditional life, life, life giver traditional and just, you know, dropping the gender terminology attached to that. But also looking at, "What is, ceremony access mean for folks, especially during, you know, a global pandemic?". But also, "What does this look like after and how can we create that space and enhance those spaces so that they are safer for folks to attend?".
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We can talk more about that after. And then with Digital Constellations, I am by no means a digital artist. That was a huge learning curve for me, but the support was around, you know, "How do we support folks in, you know, taking, for example, photos of their traditional crafting practice or their traditional art pieces, and then transfer that into this VR digital space and how does that feel for them. What does that look like? What textures or colours were they using? What beadwork did they want to, infuse into these into these spaces and how that felt for them, but also how it visually would translate into the VR world and what that looked like and what that meant for them?".
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We, we called the theme, "Sitting at the Table"... because there's this cross cultural conversation around a lot of the times, you know, we bring food, we have laughter, we have really serious conversations, important conversations, or crafting, always around the table. And so, implementing that concept into this digital space.
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Some of the other pieces that I work on at IYR is around, looking at this hybrid approach, which is what we're looking at with our new program that will be launching in the fall called In Motion. So phase one is on the land, but phase two is completely digital and virtual. And so, looking at what do these programs offer when you can create that dual space. So, a space for folks to meet in person and connect and feel the energy and spirit of everybody, but also, "How do you continue that engagement and, and move certain things online, and what's appropriate and what's not?".
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The added piece to that, is when you are working online, obviously you are missing that sort of in person camaraderie. However, "How do we navigate that?" and part of, part of that is creating our own, resources. We've created a, it's kind of mimics an oracle deck, but it's really a cultural resource that will help support a lot of our cultural programming in future. And we worked with Elders and knowledge sharers and youth artists to create these resources so that everybody's voice was, inputed into this resource.
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And then now we can use that moving forward with our, with our work and it talks about things like traditional medicines, it talks about concepts of reciprocity and humility and truth, it talks about some of our other cultural items, like our drums or rattles or shakers, things like that. And so all of that is integrated into that. And so we're often, ensuring that if we are moving into a virtual space that there's something physical that we're providing to the participants and looking at what that means for them.
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So, if it's cultural items, "Where would we source that from appropriately?". A lot of our work is national so we're not just focused on Ontario, we're focused across so-called Canada. And so, "What does that mean, cross culturally and through different nations and different territories and different teachings, and how do we ensure that we're doing that appropriately?".
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And so a lot of this work is around consultation and checking in and constant meetings, to ensure that we're doing things appropriately.
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In terms of my own personal stuff, like I mentioned before, I am a writer, I'm a poet. And so really, sharing my experiences that I've had in my writing and what that means for me, one of the work, pieces of work that I had done for, actually TTC, was around the concept of plant medicines and teachings and how, as a society when we move away from our cultural practices and our spirit, and what that means for us, we're sort of, creating this environment of chaos, and unsettled, unsettled realities.
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And so, how do we go back to those plant teachings and the medicine that they offer, to create the semblance of grounding and reconnect us with our spirit in a way that, society doesn't provide for us, right?. A lot of this, these things are closed practices and how do we navigate those close practices with, a society that seemingly is falling apart, because we're missing the spirit of, a lot of the things that we're doing and the work that we're doing?
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And How do we teach that? How do we teach people to protect themselves and ground themselves in who they are so that they can continue to do the good work that we're doing?. And so that's sort of what we're working on now. And so a lot of my stuff leads into, personal and professional. But yeah, I'll leave that there and I'm sure more will come out. [chuckle]
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Belinda Kwan: Wow, thank you all so much for, for sharing your work and your interests and... introducing yourselves with such warmth. I'm seeing so much wonderful overlap and I'm getting really excited. I hope you all are getting excited as well.
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You know, an overarching theme really being, thinking through the hybrid, hybridity of digital and in person space, that those two really inform each other, both in terms of the wonderful community building and relationship building but also the harder elements of it, which have to do with safety and harm reduction and putting in protocols to ensure that we're allowing things to grow in a way that that allows proper stewardship, of each other, and the knowledge that we share. So thank you so much for that.
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I wanted to encourage a little bit more overlap in terms of the themes, which are really about intersectionality and, and allowing different communities to access a space or, maybe deciding that a space is only for a given community.
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How do you all define intersectionality and disability justice in the context of your work and for you and your practice?. Why are these frameworks crucial when discussing harm reduction safety and community building and online spaces?.
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And I'm actually going to pass this question on to Sapphire first.
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Sapphire Woods: Thank you. So, when I was reading the question, I was having a really hard time thinking it through originally and I landed at the realization that I'm not sure if those two definitions are mutually exclusive. That is there, they're wrapped up into each other.
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So, my understanding of intersectionality is all these different parts of our identities and what moves us through the world and how the world treats us, is what we would acknowledge as intersectionality - not even just how the world sees us but treats us, based off of how we move in the world or how we're perceived - and disability justice is a part of, intersectionality as it stands.
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But, when we centre disability justice, it means that, we all get access, everyone gets access and I think it's Patty Berne. Yeah, Patty Berne, that said, "When no body and no mind is left behind", which I really love that idea. So I think definition wise, when we're thinking through how we're creating these beautiful experiences for our respective communities, either that we belong to, or we want to include in, our projects but also the futures that we're creating, or the expectations of a kind of future that we want for ourselves, being able to understand disability justice comes front and centre. And that means that when we go into the future... it's more accessible for everyone.
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So I think, at least when I'm putting it into the context of my work, I'm thinking through... maybe different iterations of a project into the future where different kinds of access can come through. So again, right now as it stands the most important thing for me is building a, a garden where again, you don't need too much.
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I guess technology is, it's such a broad word right? Technology could be plants, access to plants is the type of technology, growing them is a type of technology. But also, what sort of hardware would you need in order to get closer to this goal of spending time with plants, and spending time with nature? And what could that look like? And trying to get creative with, how few barriers can we put in front of, how few barriers, can we create and how many barriers can we take away in order for that to be a reality for more people? So yeah, that's, that's my answer there.
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Belinda Kwan: Thank you for that. Yeah, I love this, bringing together of disability justice and intersectionality, because those are so core to each other and it's not really until we bring intersectionality into the equation that we can really start thinking deeply about disability justice. Thank you.
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So I'm going to pass it over to Anélia now to possibly build off Sapphire's answer or give your own answer as well.
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Anélia Victor: Yeah, I feel like a lot of times in my practice, especially that like I'm dealing with community I'm dealing with people. I'm getting to know them like it's, it's not very much a solo... practice. I do have to come, where everyone has met, where they are. So even before... discussing anything or working on anything it's, also why I have to be mindful of, "What am I bringing into this space? How can I deconstruct certain things that I can make sure that that other person feels safe... and so what they are going to be sharing with me?".
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And then when I am in these spaces with someone else that is some, virtually very new, you know, we all have our guards up, we all have different things to keep us... safe. And it's basically understanding that, okay, I need to create the space for this person to feel able to share, as well as... having less... less things that are obstructive to them for them to be able to share some, to share their own knowledge, or their own experiences. And, if it's like, yeah, if it could mean anything very simple to me going to them or putting that extra effort into something that I have the ability to do.
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So a lot of times, it's in my practice it's just, it's just... getting to know the person first, which is a really big thing and disability justice is, you got to know the person who they are and everyone is so different and and sometimes, with art it could be very cold. It could be very like, there is no, understanding of humanity. In a sense there's no personal connection. And to have that be the forefront of my practice itself, does bring a sort of safety into the space that both of us come into for sure.
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Belinda Kwan: Thank you. Yeah, I'm really feeling that aspect of getting to know people first, building that into the project. Because it's [laughing] not often talked about right? You don't often talk about that in your grant application for example, like "Oh, I'm going to spend a moment to get to know the people who are involved in this project". And... I love that parallel between... the table as a meeting place and the garden as a meeting place, a little farm to table... symbolism going on. But, I mean what those places are are really... moments where you can work alongside someone, have that conversation with them, and over time you return and you return and you return. So... love that... common ground that's emerging out of this conversation here.
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I'm going to pass it over to Amanda to think about these things in terms of disability justice and intersectionality.
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Amanda Amour-Lynx: It's been interesting engaging in virtual programming and, the type of learning curve that has... come along with adapting in-person programs to these digital spaces and, considering, what access needs are... what they might look like... within a virtual sphere and...
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that's informed the direction of the virtual regalia making program as well as Digital Constellations, where, preparing agendas and letting people know what might happen before entering the space, as well as providing alternative mediums for them to access and providing that permission for them to, feel like they can tend to their needs while present in the spaces, which might include... self-soothing, it might include any type of neurodivergence, but then also offering the opportunity to have tangible materials that they, can refer back to as well, like recording things and putting the diligence into captioning and... being flexible in that, in that manner,
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but also looking at, the ways that our communities and how we access are, how they may access our programming needs to be trauma-informed as well. And looking at those systemic colonial impacts that... any participant or youth might be facing when walking into the space with us and looking at that harm reduction approach.
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So, whether that's being from a remote or fly-in community that might have reduced access to technology. What does that look like as a nonprofit and how can we... mend that gap, or looking at things like single parenthood or, how... colonial trauma might look at, things like, mental health and addiction and the types of, spaces and, intentional care that needs to be put into community protocols that are compassionate, and also, mindful, of how these intersections might impact, participant to participant or peer to peer relationships but then also, invites them in and accepts them where they are as well.
00:40:00.600 --> 00:40:58.700
And, really just being flexible in those ways... while also looking at... the ways that... our communities may be on fixed income so when we invite them into our spaces for, sharing or providing honorariums, giving them that informed consent around, what will be taxable, and what... whether they have a bank account or not or whether that will impede their own... potentials to flourish as well. So these types of considerations, sometimes are systemic as well as interpersonal or, guided by how we... work in, work with community in, in the ways that we... create space and, navigate it.
00:41:01.950 --> 00:41:40.550
Belinda Kwan: Thank you, Lynx. There's just so much there. This is Belinda speaking, about... what access looks like in a virtual space. Earlier Mel, you brought up that learning curve of, "Okay, once you enter the digital space, you need to get to know it". And I think that's an interesting connection too to what you're saying, Anélia, about getting to know the people... because there's getting to know the people and then you also have to get to know the environment, because you have to learn to accommodate those folks within the environment. So, so I'm really loving that connection.
00:41:42.000 --> 00:42:08.100
And so, I'm eager to hear from Mel because Mel, as I understand it, you transitioned from frontline work to working in arts and culture, and then, more traditional arts and culture into a digital space. And so, yeah, I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on disability justice and intersectionality as that environment and platform changes.
00:42:08.100 --> 00:43:01.900
Mel Compton: Yeah, for sure. So, doing frontline, obviously, a lot of that is assessing the physical space that you're in or like the physical symptomology of what is present in the person or the surroundings and, so having to switch that into a virtual space, it's very different because sitting with somebody or being in a space with somebody, you can pick up on energy, and you can pick up on body language and, those social cues where... if there is a trigger and they want to walk away from you, you still can visually see where they're going or where they are, or you're so close enough that, you can navigate, that situation and help support that, coming down from that trigger.
00:43:01.900 --> 00:43:34.100
Whereas when you're moving that into a virtual space, you don't know, what's happening around them. We're in these boxes and you don't know who's behind the screen or, the computer or, what's going on in that environment. And, quite easily if, somebody is triggered, they can just end the call and that's the end of it and you don't know, what's happening for them, after that fact, especially if they are not wanting to answer again, right?
00:43:34.100 --> 00:44:27.000
And so, really having to... do those constant check-ins and... flipping from crisis intervention, and I also did anti-human trafficking work. So flipping from, very extreme frontline into... programming and direct programming, although very different, there's still similarities in terms of safety assessments and risk assessments and what that might look like. And so what we had learned over time was to basically do a, introduction slash, interview process, before having folks come into the space. And so, it gave myself, Lynx, our colleagues, an opportunity to meet with, individuals first.
00:44:27.000 --> 00:45:01.200
So they knew who we were, they knew what we looked like, they knew how we spoke. And then from their asking questions like, "What are your needs and are there needs that we, can we meet those needs and if we can't meet those needs, how can we accommodate as best as we can?". Virtually obviously there's some barriers there's some restrictions. As a nonprofit, we can't buy somebody a laptop but we can provide headphones, right? And so, what is that balance between what we can and cannot provide?
00:45:01.200 --> 00:45:36.400
And I think the other thing was it gave, a space for us to really, get to know somebody first before, they were in the space and to... do a preliminary risk assessment. So with some folks they had... disclosed, I'm not out to my family. So it was like, okay, we had that in the back of our mind to be like, okay, if they have headphones or making sure they had headphones, so that we can speak openly in the space, but to know that, that information wasn't being, heard in the, in the larger environment that they were in.
00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:57.000
We would ask questions like, "Do you feel safe?" or "Being off camera so that... people don't know that you're listening to, something that's going on in the background", or "Can you go somewhere while this, this workshop is taking place?", or "Where can you go?", "Who can you be around?". Basically those questions, right?
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:36.800
And then, in terms of... providing materials, is we made sure within our budget two things. We made sure that our first session and our last session, so our first session was introductory orientation, get to know you we embed that within every project that we do. So if we say a program is five weeks, it's technically seven, [laughter] realistically speaking, because we're, always infusing that introductory orientation phase, whether or not we've done an interview process. And then our ending is our closing celebration but it's also that evaluation circle that, tell us what we need to do better.
00:45:36.800 --> 00:47:11.000
"Did we meet your needs? If not, do you have recommendations?", things like that, but also providing a space for them just to hang out. Often we find with our programs is it's, you, you go to this program, and then there's nothing else after, there's no continuity of care. So when you're blending that, that conversation of harm reduction or frontline, into programming, were's that continuity, right? We talk about that wraparound approach, that community care, but often our programs are one of, or there's a closure that is very abrupt.
00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:30.800
And there's no, what I like to call stepping stone program or, parallel program for folks to continue to engage, especially folks who have social anxiety or, who, just don't feel comfortable reaching out, to their peers to be like, "Hey I would like to chat" or, you know, how do we help support those pieces?
00:47:30.800 --> 00:48:14.000
And then the second piece is, always making sure within our budgets, that we can, purchase, or obtain medicines, program materials, something as simple as fidget materials, for them to engage in while they're in the program, and etc. A lot of the time we do our assessment first and then we'll order, but making sure that we have that in the budget, and, mailing, postage [chuckle] budget within the program at all, at all times. It just helps, folks when they get something physical, tactile, we're very tactile people. And so making sure that those things are embedded into the programs that we're offering and that we're running.
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:54.700
The other thing is just making sure that, there's access to us. So obviously, in what I'm in now we're not a crisis or frontline service, but making sure that we're like hey, "During these time periods, you can reach out to us or you can reach out to us through email or, here's a staff member or, if I'm off here's this person you can reach out to. And we have an ongoing.. national resource list, for folks that we can be like "Hey, here's this organization or this person you can reach out to or here's this Elder that you can communicate with to support you with things that are going on".
00:48:54.700 --> 00:49:15.000
The other thing that we aim to make sure, is that, if there is something that has come up in this space, and Lynx and I can both speak to this, is we've stayed on the call for hours after, just making sure that those folks, feel safe, that they feel okay, that they're able to have some type of closure to the, conversation that was brought up.
00:49:17.000 --> 00:50:03.950
One of the things that I've been thinking about as everybody was talking, was really around the physical access to spaces. Prior to, everything jumping virtually, a lot of, Indigenous spaces, and I'm sure other, folks can attest to this as well, is we're often thrown in basements or, in very old buildings that don't necessarily have a lot of, physical access. I myself am still recovering from a pretty severe spinal and thigh injury and, even when there is a, quote-unquote elevator, it's almost just like a shipping elevator and it's quite claustrophobic, or you come up this elevator and you're in a closet. [chuckle]
00:50:03.950 --> 00:50:36.050
It's just, it's very, very much the afterthought. And I know this isn't something that can be easily fixed, right now, but I think as a society, we need to talk about these things more and why, we're constantly being thrown in these, in these buildings or these types of spaces that don't have, proper infrastructure, for folks who do have physical disabilities, to access because that prevents a lot of folks from, attending as well.
00:50:36.050 --> 00:51:18.000
And even yeah, okay, yeah, there might be an elevator but, that doesn't help somebody who has severe confinement issues or has, claustrophobia or, just cannot, be in those spaces and I think when we have these conversations around disability, at a lot of government tables or social service tables they just automatically go to, "Okay maybe it's somebody in a wheelchair, or maybe it's somebody who has crutches", but they don't often connect, the hidden disabilities that are attached with the physical things, or they don't just, they automatically look at somebody and they're like, "Oh well you look physically okay, like what what's your issue?".
00:51:18.000 --> 00:52:11.400
And so... when we're talking about physical access, that's why I, for myself, I like the high rate approach, in terms of doing parts online and parts virtual, but I also like the idea of, continuing these services virtually so that there is that access, especially like, like Lynx brought up a very good point that we run into a lot of the times. Internet is not always accessible for our communities, and so what that looks like for us is, partnering with local community centres, or friendship centres, or even as far as community members and Elders, and the elderly and maybe, maybe adults, maybe siblings, aunties, uncles, whatever that may look like for the folks in the community, but for those youth to be able to go to their homes or those spaces, to access internet if that's something that they don't have access to.
00:52:11.400 --> 00:53:05.500
The other thing that we struggle with sometimes is, on, in reserve communities, sometimes there's, local power outages. And so during times where, we might be offering programming, and that's a set time for us, that youth's, community has no power. And so, for us it's not necessarily about mandating somebody participate in the program at that point in time, like Lynx mentioned is we like to provide, as much access as we can, and so as long as we're having a conversation with that person, and we're aware of what's happening, we've done things as like use an online e-learning tool and, recorded our own tutorials and, added links and, there's literally videos of me on my cellphone and be like, "This is my beading space", right?
00:53:06.300 --> 00:53:56.000
But something, that has been a learning curve for us, but is so imperative so the work that we're doing, to maintain that access, and learning how to block out people's names, and learning how to, add closed captioning after the fact or, even just learning how to edit videos and, things like that and hiring our youth, like youth that participate in our programs, hiring them to come in and do transcription, or teaching them skills attached to that so, not only are they participants, but they're coming in to support us with those projects and we're paying them. And so, like Lynx was mentioning tax stuff and bank accounts. That's why we bring that up is because, usually there's an honorarium attached to every program, that we offer.
00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:16.600
And so it's not just about them creating a baseline for skill development or community, it's, "Hey, we want to give this to you, so that you're here and you don't have to worry about, food for that day while you're participating in our program. And usually it's a dual honorarium, so it's a food stipend and it's an honorarium for being in the space.
00:54:16.600 --> 00:54:45.000
And sometimes it's not much and sometimes it is a bigger amount that, we know in the nonprofit that it's just about funding but... making sure that those things are there and present so that, those basic needs are met, for them so that they can participate, and can actually obtain the knowledge that they're receiving in that space, because we know that people can't pay attention or, retain the things that we're trying to provide to them, when their basic needs are not met.
00:54:48.700 --> 00:55:03.700
Belinda Kwan: Yeah, there's just so much there and thank you so much again for, your work and your insight on this. I want to say so much, in response but it is 3:01 and I'd like to give everybody a break.
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So, we'll come back at 3:11pm Eastern time, and the break is for everybody... so folks who are on the panel and on our access team, just let me know when you're back and I'll see you all soon.
01:04:20.950 --> 01:04:24.300
My new drink of choice is, ginger ale.
01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:01.200
Welcome, welcome, just waiting for everyone to get back.
01:06:07.800 --> 01:06:33.000
All right. It looks like, we have everybody back. I hope you all had a very restful, ten minute and break. I myself am learning to, appreciate short breaks... cause, I don't know about y'all, but I'm kind of like... it's just ten minutes... [laughter] and I don't make the most of it.
01:06:34.600 --> 01:07:42.950
So, I just wanted to... bring it back, to Sapphire. And... something you said, Sapphire, early on about... intersectionality and disability justice. And, I think between the lines, I was really reading this, aspect of, also defining these things for ourselves, when we work amongst our community members and... work with very specific projects and specific gathering places. And I wanted to give you a chance to talk more about that and maybe pick up on the other things that folks have said, about access. But also, I, I just... I just wanted to acknowledge all this, rich insight that Mel gave us right before the break. And I definitely want to dig into those things a little bit more as the conversation continues.
01:07:42.950 --> 01:08:05.500
But maybe Sapphire, you have things to say about that as well. Especially given that, I know you are a community worker who came to new media through a program, this very highlight-y program that InterAccess created. So I'm interested to hear your perspective on that, like what it means to transition from community support to being an artist yourself.
01:08:08.300 --> 01:08:19.600
Sapphire Woods: Okay, yeah. Thanks, Belinda. So this is Sapphire. So actually exactly what you had mentioned, there is something that Anélia had said and Mel had said that I was like, "Oh, that's so interesting".
01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:54.000
Both in the theme of, working slowly with where people are at. I think that's something that I had learned explicitly when working with plants, because my idea wasn't to, build digital versions of plants that I knew and these, already flowering images appear inside of this virtual garden. And you have this complete image. I was - sorry - I was, I really was committed to the idea of I'm going to take, these 3D scans of plants as they're growing.
01:08:54.000 --> 01:09:30.050
And, so I am currently just about to wrap up a residency between Eastern Bloc and InterAccess. And my whole idea was, I'm going to have this presentation, it's going to be, a million plants. And then I really had this interesting, humbling experience where I realized, depending on the weather, depending on what the heat or the cold is saying, I'm not going to get all the plants that I want and I'm certainly not going to get them in their completed and fullsome iteration of themselves [laughter]. As we look back, sometimes you have to fake it. [chuckle] We want the full image right away.
01:09:30.050 --> 01:10:16.900
And I think, that was my learning lesson when it came to slowness. So, creating these relationships and, literally growing, with people. And in two ways, this is, in my opinion... holding hands with both disability justice and decolonizing practices. So when we're going slow, it's hard to, it's more difficult to cause some of these incidental harms, like not thinking about how people are getting up elevators, or if they can even access these elevators because you've had these conversations and you know your community even before you, you make decisions about this program. So Mel was talking about these introductory, sessions and these closing sessions, like we're not just going to, end the relationship.
01:10:16.900 --> 01:10:36.900
Usually, what is that called now? Like ghosting? You're not going to ghost the people that you've built relationships, typically, if you're a good person, you don't do that. [laughter] It's frowned upon in society to ghost people. And you certainly don't want to do that. And it's harder to do that with people that you've spent time getting to know in these shared experiences.
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And then on the second part, there's also this archiving, best practice as well. So Anélia and I are both in, this very concentrated - from what I'm hearing from you, Anélia. There's this very [laughter] intensive focus on, gathering information, and not just gathering information, but stories.
01:10:57.050 --> 01:11:31.000
And you... if you've ever... tried to get a recipe from, your - and I'm assuming that everyone here has some sort of auntie and uncle that, isn't going to give you the recipe on a written piece of paper. They're going to tell you like a dash of this, and it's going to smell like this. And there's just... it's not going to come to you in a cookbook. It's going to come to you in an oral way, or you just would have had to expose yourself, to their environment to get the real essence of, what you're looking for, the kind of information you're looking for.
01:11:31.000 --> 01:12:02.800
So, I think that there's something about, going slow that is, almost antithetical to how we understand new media or technology, as it stands. So, when I first moved from frontline work, which is very much about, not just community building, but, if you do community work with integrity, you don't just stop your relationships with people, you are entangled in other people's lives and inevitably, they're entangled in your life too.
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Granted, there are boundaries and things that, you know, everyone has their, their way of doing community work in the best way possible. But, being able to build relationships means you have to go slow with plants, you have to grow slow with building, with building a world where all of us can, be careful with each other. It means you go slow, and this idea of like media and getting information out there, there's almost like this, energetic expectation that it's going to go quickly and we have to like shoot these things out.
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But, with power outages, with weather, with, varying degrees of even processing information - we're not computers, we're people. And so there's an interesting element that I think is, a beautiful marriage between, community building and new media where... with practice, disability justice comes into fruition, inside of going slow. And if that's a mandate, you can really produce some - actually, I don't want to say produce because we're not products.
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These are the things, these are the fruits of our labor, that we get to archive or hold the stories of so, that's the decolonial part - we are, cells are not products, the stories that we hold are not products, they are something to be shared amongst ourselves, and with our communities in a way that, makes it so they don't get lost in the speed, of life.
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Belinda Kwan: Yeah. Thank you for that. This is Belinda speaking. Yeah, every time I, I hear this, this mention of slowness, it really hits me as an arts administrator myself, working in these realms.
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The difficulty, and the intentionality of going slow, I think, out, outside of folks who are pro-slowness in this way, there's this idea that people are just chilling. But it, it's really this, very intentional, thought laborious process really, of putting ourselves in new environments, doing that kind of resource mapping, resource evaluation, the risk evaluation, and mitigation that you were talking about Mel. It's this intentionality, and this willingness to pivot as well. That really spoke to me and what you're saying and, and the way that plants teach us that, and the way that people teaches that as well.
01:14:47.300 --> 01:15:24.000
I think... yeah, I don't know if I should, put folks on the, on the spot, but I think it's, it's actually a really nice piece of knowledge recently, shared by Field, who is, who is here in the audience. And recently Field was sharing something on, social media - I'll check in with field later if it's okay to put on the podcast - but... just their thoughts about how important it is to be in community with folks or beings that challenge us.
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Speaking of boundaries, as much as boundaries are important it's also important that the folks around us push our boundaries in healthy ways, and not destructive ways of course, and, and give us pause, to say "Hey it's time to work at a different pace. It's time to not go with the flow that you were going with before".
01:15:48.950 --> 01:16:56.000
And... yeah... I feel like that really resonates with all the work of folks here, and in particular, I wanted to connect this with your work and your artistic approach Lynx. Because I'm always very impressed by the way that, you treat your artistic projects and your community projects. With with such deep intention and consideration, and also the way that you, you engage both in the digital and the in person so deeply. So, so I'm curious to know your thoughts about how that process has been lately, in terms of the wonderful things, but also the challenges maybe and the things that you maybe perceive, that are left wanting currently in, in cultural spaces when it comes to supporting, and an intentionally supportive space.
01:16:58.950 --> 01:18:03.400
Amanda Amour-Lynx: Thank you. Lynx speaking and maybe, Mel would have more to elaborate on this, but as you were drawing these connections together I, was thinking again about the way that we designed the program, that is upcoming that we're working on together called In Motion. And it's a phasic program that has four components to it, and we used... the growth cycle of a plant as a metaphor for [chuckle] community building, which... might be in part inspired by the collaborations we've done with you and InterAccess with Rhizomatic Pedagogies as well. But, looking at these four phases as, a, seed... to root, and then flowering and then reseeding.
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And what I mean by that is... because it's pronounced funny [chuckle] if you're just hearing it, verbally but... thinking about the metaphor of a dandelion as resilient and, hard to kill, and has traveled across, oceans and landed here as... what would be considered a weed but is highly, medicinal and therapeutic contribution to... our environment right now and... when, when it flowers it, is... these little fluffs that carry forward. So that's what I meant by, reseeding.
01:18:57.500 --> 01:20:12.400
So, how that continuity of care can look like, after you've fostered, not only the, the growth cycle of a plant but, also looking at the environment, so the nutrients within the soil. So what, exists in that environment already, to look at... the metaphor of soil health in terms of... interdependence, so not necessarily what capitalist structures look at in terms of, being, self-sufficient or, being production machines and being entirely... able to, manage your own mental health and tend to your family and tend to your, [chuckle] staying housed as well as all of these daily living necessities, and...
01:20:12.400 --> 01:20:40.450
it's an important reminder to know that, it's not a natural way of living, to be entirely alone. We're always in conversation with the ecosystem and the environment. We're informed by our ancestors who have passed on, our relatives or chosen family, and what that might look like today, and how that is needed to transform through stages of grief as well.
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And then through that peer-to-peer sharing. So when, considering, the, vulnerability and frailty of being a seedling or being something that is within a very young germinating cycle. So many things can impact it... flash weather... how that can look like as a as a metaphor for, stressors and... interruptions, to our plans...
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whether that's injury... the reality of being [chuckle] mortal beings as well and, how we can, navigate that and... foster that going forward by actually looking at, well what can you put into these environments so that they become more self sustaining, and they become richer and more fuelled to... allow for, that... community co-creation, collaboration, and building those bridges so that people don't feel like they're entirely isolated.
01:22:05.800 --> 01:23:28.000
There's... a concept that I won't be able to cite but, looks at our theories of interdependence and quantum reality and multiplicity, and... and it also is in, counselling theory as well that, says that [throat clearing]... wellness derives from, the sense of meaning and purpose in our daily activities, and you'll find that people that are most... on the margin or feeling like they're, excluded from society are the ones that... need community the most. And... it often becomes something ignored or bypassed in the ways that we, incorporate that into, structures, institutions, core programming, or even just the way that, economics works as well. So, that's slow system of growing is how you don't leave other people behind.
01:23:31.100 --> 01:23:42.100
Belinda Kwan: That's a very quotable insight, for sure. Slowness is a way of not leaving folks behind. I really love that. Thank you.
01:23:44.000 --> 01:23:58.900
Yeah, it's so, it's so interesting running these panels because, there's such a set pointed list of questions but everyone ends up answering them through talking about their work.
01:24:00.350 --> 01:24:57.000
And in particular, what I'm really taking away from this is, the fact that, cultural knowledges bring such important insight to new technologies. This traditional knowledge cultural knowledge of stewarding for plants and cultural communities. That's something that's a strength that you bring into learning digital media or new media. Because technology is about building systems, and all of these systems, at scalable systems, and all of these scalable systems existed before and, are a type of proficiency that can really be applied to understanding new technologies - so long as we also learn about the uniqueness of those technologies, and learn to adapt for them.
01:24:58.000 --> 01:25:40.400
There, I just keep on going back to what you were saying, Mel, in terms of... yeah just all these considerate elements of programming that you've shared, like thinking about elevators, thinking about headphones, do folks have sufficient privacy where they're accessing Internet. And I was really struck, struck by what you were saying about partnering with local community centres and friendship centres because that is a network. Right? That is a network, that is remote programming. In a way that doesn't just rely on what we traditional, or not traditionally, but conventionally now see as remote programming, on Zoom.
01:25:40.400 --> 01:25:02.900
So, I'm really loving that theme and that answer to how we reclaim digital spaces, it's by bringing our cultural values and our community building values into the digital space, understanding the digital space and adapting, as as our knowledge is needed. Thank you so much for that.
01:25:02.900 --> 01:26:50.000
I want to bring it to Anélia, because I know you work very hands on, or as far as I know, please feel free to surprise me with other elements of your work. But as far as I know, you work very hands on in textile, and in farming, and et cetera. What do you want to see happening in digital spaces, that you're not maybe not seeing as much? Or maybe in a more positive light, like what are some examples of really exciting work... that is online that you want more of, that really reflects this community culture that you've fostered in your textile and your gardening farming practice? I think your question.
01:26:50.000 --> 01:28:02.700
Anélia Victor: I think your question... honestly I think, more things that I want to see, or things that I am seeing people do is, providing that accessibility to these materials, or to these cultural practices, to more of a further reach of people. So, even, even Sapphire's project for example, you're providing this, how a plant is growing in different phases, online where it's able to reach people that are, that are not living in the land that they are from or, or can have that access. And especially with material-wise I see with, textiles and other, and other materials, I do see a lot of people trying to, trying to bridge that gap together so that, if people don't have access to those materials that they can figure out, what is those materials look like in real world and texture-wise, and also how did they replicate those materials... for them to do it in a more cost effective?
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So, if you do have people that are in more communities that are more isolated from bigger cities, living in Toronto for example, we, we have a privilege to be able to get a lot of things very easily, compared to a town, that it might take someone four hours to get to a major city to get to. But if, something is living in a digital space, and you're showing them like, "Oh if you want to get a woven, fabric, I see a lot of people using a kombucha bacteria, or algae, or things in the natural world that we can use", that has been practices for so long that are obviously either, hasn't been documented, or has been documented, or has been lost, is, is easily found to people that can replicate those things in places they can't.
01:28:54.500 --> 01:29:26.000
Even when Mel was discussing like, "Oh this is what my beading table looks like", just with the phone and the hand you're showing that example, someone else, somewhere very far could be like, "Oh, I'm, that's how to do it! That's, that's, they can then you start getting that inspiration, for folks to be like, "Okay, what do I have? What resources I have around me to, probably replicate that?". Or even replicate that for them to do it in the way that's beneficial for them.
01:29:27.400 --> 01:30:07.000
So yeah, I think it's just, this community of co-creation and co-sharing, and all that and, and, I think a lot of times that, when we see, or understand, the definition of technology, it has to be something very, very complicated, or something very, intrusive in a sense of, in a sense of like AI, something has to, something has to do it outside of the human experience, when it's, technology is very much, community oriented, for us to all connect to each other, much closely even if we're physically further away.
01:30:07.000 --> 01:30:29.800
So that's one thing I'm like, I think I really do enjoy seeing it's just, as much as, you have something that can't be accessed immediately, but it's just like, "How do you create that for yourself and for the people that are around you right now?", and then connecting with those in further places. For sure.
01:30:32.500 --> 01:31:14.500
Belinda Kwan: Thank you, thank you. I want to open up the floor to questions at 3:45, but, I'm going to throw in a bit of a hard consideration that I want to hear, y'alls opinion on, or perspective on. And it's something that a new media centre like InterAccess often runs up against. And, it's around the question and cost of technology because, think platforms like Zoom, platforms like Meta, they really do give a lot of... space, and resources, and quick access to folks who need it.
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Whereas when we turn to open source, there's, there's much more community, there's much... good open source projects, they have much more, transparency and, a slower, development cycle, maybe more thoughtful more connected to its users. But then also, it may not bring the speed, that's needed for the urgency of serving people, or mounting certain programs, in time... for the people who need it. And so, it's a bit of a complicated question.
01:31:52.950 --> 01:32:23.000
But... how do you see capitalist and colonial practices showing up, in today's technology industry, and how come, how can, number one we become more aware of these impacts? But also, what opportunities do we have to challenge these practices or, approach it in a harm reductive way where we're weighing out the cost and what's worthwhile of using?
01:32:29.600 --> 01:32:36.000
And I'm, I'm not going to assign this question to anyone. [laughter] Please go ahead, Sapphire.
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Sapphire Woods: So this, is such a funny question because it is dual, it's, it's really not a binary answer, like "This is good and this is bad". I was talking, with my partner and her brother, yesterday and we're talking about like, "What's the difference in a virtual and digital world? What's the difference between a community, and, monetizing, a following".
01:33:01.500 --> 01:33:51.950
So in one hand, it's super accessible for someone to have, sorry, for someone to have... like a Patreon, they are pumping out, so much valuable, invaluable work and they're able to monetize, that work and make an actual living for themselves, under quite a bit of autonomy, which is beautiful. But then, there's certain access that, maybe your own community needs that you, you're barriered by finances, which is, interesting. But I guess, yeah, with that example... I am seeing, monetizing things as also, a way that capitalism sneaks into digital spaces and digital art practices.
01:33:51.950 --> 01:34:32.500
Yeah, I don't know if that brings up something for anybody else, but that's the first thing that came, to mind, monetizing things and then yeah, the cost of, certain technology, it's super cool, and probably cooler to, say on a grant that I want to work with... I don't know, something that requires a lot of gear, and if you get a lot of money in a grant or with funding, you can buy laptops for everybody, but then only certain people can access it because you can have those things but not access to internet, which is something that comes up so often. So yeah, it's like, it's an interesting conversation, like we can't win it all and be perfect, but it is something cool to think about.
01:34:33.800 --> 01:34:01.250
Belinda Kwan: Mhmm, and what I'm really hearing from you is this balance between, surviving and capitalism and resisting it, and knowing... which one is what. And also in serving other folks too, when are we helping folks survive in capitalism and when are we helping them to resist it? And depending on that answer, we may choose different tools for their usage.
01:34:01.250 --> 01:35:39.950
But it really comes out of this, challenging of a binary I think, because when I see writing in discourse about new media spaces, it often falls in one of those two camps, right? Like the harms of technology, the energy consumption of servers for example. But then also, the thing about fast servers, is it helps deliver what people need, the community that people need in an urgent and fast manner. So, weighing out that cost is always a difficult process and I think you did touch on that perfectly with your example.
01:35:39.950 --> 01:35:45.040
Any, any other responders to this prompt or question?
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Yeah, Anélia. Or whoever wants to take it. [chuckle]
Mel: I...
01:35:51.000 --> 01:36:47.700
Mel: I can jump in quick. It's Mel. Just to come from a programming perspective, I as the supervisor, I get to come in and be like, "We have deadlines and we have stats". And so that's sort of the, as much as wanting to take it slow, coming from a nonprofit, the reality is, if we don't provide the numbers and, demographics and all of these things, we no longer have funding. And so, as much as we want to follow this process, we kind of have to come up with a plan at the beginning of a project and like implement, "Okay, here's the deadline, but then here's the hard deadline and then here's the, this, we're in the danger zone". So we talk about at the beginning, what's the flexibility with this project and, here's when we want to have it done, here's the hard deadline and here's like, this is no question I have to come down with a hammer and be like, "We need to do it now".
01:36:47.700 --> 01:37:59.700
And so it's hard balancing between those things. What I wanted to bring up with, with this, with access, what we're dealing with right now with some of our programs, especially when we identify there's an honorarium, is we're dealing with bots and scammers. And so it creates this huge barrier for our folks to register and access because, we have this open registration, but then like 80 out of 100 of them are just, either not real people or their scammers coming in and taking up that space. And so really we're trying to navigate what this looks like, in, in the digital space, right? Because, it prevents our folks from registering or being able to register in the way that is meant to but then, when you enhance those security features, then it limits that access. Or like we brought up, a lot of folks maybe only have one computer in the home, and so they need the ability for like seven youth to register, but then we have to limit it to three per two hours or something, just to prevent some of those things from happening. And so, trying to balance between that.
01:37:59.700 --> 01:38:57.000
But there was something you said Belinda, I can't remember exactly what it was, but it's like, for us, balancing the national piece because our urban youths, quick with social media, quick with the digital stuff, quick with those things, but when you're looking at remote reserve communities, or fly-in communities, or those in a rural space, it's about three major things we've looked at, and it's simplicity, consistency and authenticity. And so, where we might need the flashy gear quote-unquote for our urban youth, where they're like, "Yeah, we want the technology we want the laptop we want the programs", folks that don't know that that exists, are like, "We just want a very raw, video clip of your table". You know what I mean? So it's really balancing between... what the needs are, and how it's going to be perceived, in those different communities and with those, those you youth who've experienced different things. So, [whispering] I'll leave it there. [chuckle]
01:38:58.050 --> 01:39:19.000
Belinda Kwan: Thank you. It really comes back to, what you're saying Anélia, about getting to know the people you're working with, and by extension also getting to know the environment, and then being... adaptive to it and... yeah that's, that's really sticking for me. Anélia, you wanted to respond to that question?
01:39:19.900 --> 01:39:51.300
Anélia Victor: Yeah, I think one thing that also comes up for me is, surveillance too. As much as we're having these new medias and all these new fun things. [laughing] There's also this element of being like, "Oh what's going to happen to our data? What's going to happen to the data of our participants?", and all this stuff and, and... to be real, sometimes we all don't have the time to read the terms and conditions to, know what's going to happen in like two minutes after you put in your name in the system and what's going to happen and all this stuff.
01:39:51.300 --> 01:40:39.400
And I do see a lot of people... trying to subvert that, of being on, sort, on platforms that are... that has, that is easy and has less surveillance in a sense, where it's like, it's really just you and the person talking so... if someone wants to register for a program, I've seen a lot of people being like, "Okay, if you're interested, DM us for a Telegram link". And so, you would have to just download Telegram and you get this link. And it's this sort of vetting of making sure that, there is less surveillance of like, they're not not certain, not certain [laughing] cop-like things or people come into programs and make it unsafe.
01:40:39.400 --> 01:41:32.000
And even, even seeing in an art sense of people of technology and art, I see a lot of people now online even trying to do, make up to make sure that their faces get scrambled when they do go into places like protest or, and all this stuff because that's a lot of what our communities do. And so they are out in the streets and some of these new technologies can be more... detrimental for us in the future, for our own lives. And... seeing a lot of youth actually figuring out these different ways and these different tools of just using traditional things for new technologies a long time ago, like makeup or, a mask and all that stuff to, subvert those technologies. So, this has been very interesting to see.
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Belinda Kwan: Yeah, I... thank you for that. I love in your answer that, you're highlighting the risk of using it, but also counter strategies. You can use a technology but also implement counter strategies specific to... not just a tool, but specific to an activity, like showing up to a protest. There's risk, but then to mitigate that risk you can implement a counter strategy that's specific to those risks. And I think that's so true for new media and any kind of software or hardware as well. You really have to understand that tool or environment that you're using or you're going to be in and then develop a counter strategy.
01:42:20.400 --> 01:42:55.400
And I think that also really underscores the amount of work it is to bridge digital and in-person space because you, in order to do successful new media programming, you also need to be very well aware of, the in-person implications and vice versa. And I think what you said really highlights that. And I think I think what everybody has been saying really has highlighted for me as well as the moderator... the importance of bridging knowledges.
01:42:55.400 --> 01:43:45.000
It wouldn't, just thinking personally, it wouldn't have been possible for me to understand, as much about surveillance or alternative platforms like Proton Mail, or Signal, or Telegram, if it weren't for Facebook. People can, people sometimes post about these things on Facebook, right? They give you a kind of little crack in the door in these more popular platforms to enter into more niche spaces that are specific to safety. And so, that's what I've really learned as well in my own experience, that it's not about boycotting - or sometimes it is - but it's not always about boycotting certain platforms, but rather leaving a crack in the door, so folks can realize the alternatives that can be out there.
01:43:45.000 --> 01:44:10.250
And then also, like, in what you were saying, Mel and others as well, this ability to, be willing to slow down or speed up, or scale up or down, as we need it, or let go of certain tools to use other ones as we need it. It's really about this kind of attentiveness to the people we know, and we get to know. So thank you all for that.
01:44:10.250 --> 01:44:54.950
It is now 3:50, so I'm just wondering if anyone in our audience has any questions, and perhaps we can give it the full 15 minutes till 4:05 if everybody is okay with that, just so people have full time... but if you have a question, please feel free to drop it in the chat, or you can also feel free to, unmute yourself or show yourself on camera... keeping in mind that this panel is being recorded. If you don't want to be recorded you can also let us know via the chat, and we can pause the recording for the amount of time that you're asking the question.
01:44:55.950 --> 01:45:13.900
So, I'll give it a pause, in case anyone wants to type out any burning questions, and then I also want to give a chance for the panelists to ask each other questions, so I'll step back as the panel, or the panel moderator here.
01:45:17.000 --> 01:45:18.900
Yes, go ahead Sapphire.
01:45:19.900 --> 01:45:42.000
Sapphire Woods: This is Sapphire to Anélia. I've, I have a burning question that I'm hoping we can talk about. So, Anélia and I have met in person IRL once in Halifax, and something that had come up, and I've been dying to get more into conversation about and now we can record it, is protecting the data that we're collecting and archiving.
01:45:42.000 --> 01:46:22.000
So, an aspect, so for context, my aspect of protecting or, the idea, playing with the idea of protecting is, gamifying my virtual garden so that when you, go into it you have to choose... your identity, how you want the system to read you. And depending on how you identify, the, the website will lead you to, the kind of information you can access from the garden. And, this is absolutely inspired by Danielle Brathwaite-Shirley. The Black Trans Archives... changed my life, but anyways, so we've been talking about that and so I wanted to bring it back to Anélia and...
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Are there more thoughts? I'm interested to know about, protecting the data that you're collecting because it is so specific to how you've connected, with community. Is this, is the data open to anyone to kind of peek in? Yeah, thoughts. Thoughts that's that you have.
01:46:39.000 --> 01:47:20.500
Anélia Victor: [laughter] I love this question. When we, yeah when we first start, was talking about that, protecting the data you collect from your community, and yeah does everyone have access to that or is just, do people in your community has access or certain people in your community have access? Cause it's true that not everyone needs to know, your design secrets that are happening and how things are, sometimes related or knowing. And even just that example of your, that's the auntie or the uncle, of, they're not going to just give you the recipe, immediately because, they're going to have to create a connection with you [laughing] before you get to that recipe.
01:47:22.000 --> 01:48:01.000
And I think one thing I've learned from the project of just talking to a lot of people, there's certain, there's certain little aspects or things that people have said that I'm just like, "Oh maybe I'm gonna, purposely leave that out, for just people in our community to have". So, and if to me it's like, "Does that look like of, putting the information that the general public, will benefit from that will really, get it and understand?" Because there's certain things that, you know, in our community we will understand and other communities they will understand, and we might not, understand that because of our lived experiences and that's okay, that's fine, it's great.
01:48:01.000 --> 01:48:24.250
And, I thought about, "Okay, and there's gonna be an alternative zine, an alternative website, an alternative page, where it's just, just for community to understand those little, small secrets or in secret", you know? Little small things... and I think it's just being able to share that with people that you're entrusted with.
01:48:24.250 --> 01:48:51.200
So it's like, if I'm sharing now with the people I've interviewed, to collect this information, I know that who they shared with is going to be people they trust, and it's going to, create a nice, a nice tree, a nice root, of only certain people that understand the language that I'm using, understanding the verbiage that I'm using, and then, why this is certainly important.
01:48:53.800 --> 01:49:20.200
But yeah, I think it's, I think it's very important. I think, you know, we, our ancestors had ways to... share information with other people and then also had ways to communicate within our own communities, and I think it's very important for us to [laughing] learn how to do that and learn how to get that back too, because it's a really great way to for us to all come back to connection, so... yeah.
01:49:25.800 --> 01:49:29.800
I would also love to hear the other panelists on what they think about that too.
01:49:34.500 --> 01:49:35.500
Belinda Kwan: Any takers?
01:49:36.900 --> 01:49:59.500
Mel Compton: I can jump in. It's Mel. One of the things that I've recently been sitting with, was the concept of just because we have easy access, doesn't mean we're entitled to it. And so, yeah. And so really looking at and exploring the conversations within our own Indigenous communities, but also cross-culturally, is what should we be sharing versus what we shouldn't.
01:49:59.500 --> 01:50:28.500
And it's not to say that, people don't need to know the information because they do, but what do we protect? And, like you said is... perception is everything and sometimes when something is written down based off of your lived experience, based off of your knowledge, based off of your understanding of language and what that means, you could perceive it very differently from what it's actually intended to mean.
01:50:28.500 --> 01:50:53.650
And we have to be very mindful, many of our cultures are oral storytellers and that, that relationship building, right? My mom is like that with some of her baking. My mom had me very late in life and so she's used to the older, the farm life way back in the 50s, and she'll give a recipe of her banana bread out and be like, "Hey", and everybody's like, "It doesn't taste the same!".
01:50:53.650 --> 01:51:16.950
And in my mind I'm like, "Yeah, I know because she's giving you what she thinks you need to see, but you need to stand beside her and make it with her, but [laughing] she'll never give you the full proper recipe because it's the way that she makes it and only I can replicate it because I was raised with it", right? But very similarly my cousin with my grandmother, she lived with my grandmother, and she's the only one that can make her broiled dinner, right?
01:51:16.950 --> 01:51:49.550
And so there's, it's very similar to how folks in our communities either get their name, or their spirit colours, or things like that. The Elder just doesn't give you this, you have to build that relationship, and that community network, in order to receive those things. And it isn't, just about accessing it, those things given to you are a responsibility. I think we forget that when we talk about access to this knowledge is, you may be, you may have the right to access this knowledge, but are you ready to carry the responsibility that is attached to that?
01:51:49.550 --> 01:52:11.450
And in our communities and in our cultures we recognize that and we know that, but I think in this new generation and also with, very easy access to technology and information we've, forgotten that part of our lived experience, is just because it's accessible doesn't mean we're entitled to that or we recognize the responsibility attached.
01:52:11.450 --> 01:52:43.800
And I think that's where we really need to come back cross-culturally, but even within our own designated communities, is to talk about that in a respectful way, but also to really teach and engage folks in, "This is a responsibility and are you ready for that?. Because once you uphold, once you are given that, you have to uphold that, and if we see you not upholding that then, we are entitled to come in and set you back on the right path or remove access to that information or those things because you're not upholding that responsibility".
01:52:43.800 --> 01:53:11.450
And so I think we just need to be very mindful of what that looks like, and obviously things have grown so quick. We were, we were, you know, global pandemic meant we had to, on the fly move things over virtual and there's going to be some hiccups and growing pains, but I think we're now at this space where, we're recognizing that this easy access is actually causing a detriment - in some capacity, not in all ways, but in some capacity - and not everybody's entitled to that.
01:53:11.450 --> 01:53:33.000
And so... really working with young people now to understand the difference between, those pieces, like accessibility versus responsibility, but also, what are those things that we're not putting online because of perception, right, and misunderstanding and miscommunication? And so, just really sitting with those pieces, yeah. Lynx, go ahead
01:53:34.500 --> 01:54:48.000
Amanda Amour-Lynx: There's so much - Lynx speaking - there's so many, exciting things that you've all shared and my brain is just... wants to, talk about all of them, but... one thing that comes to mind is... Basil Johnston writes about the, cultural... process of storytelling, and how... a good story, has multiple levels of understanding and when it's retold in our oral traditions, you may change your vantage point from, being... aligned, with... the... the hero or the antagonist depending on what you might be carrying with you in this phase of your life and your journey, but there will be levels of understanding within the story...there will be humour there will be, a challenge, there will be struggle, there will be a risk, there'll be resolution, and...
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I've been looking at some of the cultural, principles lately that, I'm trying to see in myself, in my personal development. How I'm, whether I'm actually walking in line with... our own... you know, I guess in Christ they call it Ten Commandments, but there are these ways in which we, we govern ourselves to be, kinder people to one another, and there's a teaching on, this idea of non-interference, and what that means for someone who's a helper, and what that means for someone who... has closed knowledge systems as well.
01:55:34.000 --> 01:56:03.500
To say that everybody has the self-determination, and the challenges that they're faced with, often is something that... is an opportunity for them to learn and try things out. Ao the type of... stewardship that you would offer would, would be non-judgment in these moments, or to not insert yourself into the experiences of others.
01:56:05.300 --> 01:56:50.000
And I find this a very, challenging, principle, but it's also very valuable as well when you're thinking about how to, preserve or conserve knowledges. I think about... language and what was shared with... well everyone in the group actually, around... that... one-on-one, or that relationship building, but knowing that in... our verb-based languages, or indigenous languages, you have, non-direct translations. It's always in relationality to something else.
01:56:50.000 --> 01:58:02.450
So you'll, often have, root words of very significant animals, places, or states of being that are in transformation and flux constantly, and if you're looking at it on an app or in a dictionary, you'll just be like, "Table. Table is a Table. Here it is in this language, here it is in that language", but when you're within community, or when you have... speakers that have carried that, or multiple generations, they'll tell you exactly what those roots are, and there'll be a very rich story that's based in... the history of, place, what happens within that place, and what, I guess, that responsibility we have, to take care of it, and how, we may evolve over time, and have, maybe our spirit names changed, or our roles in society, or in our communities change as well.
01:58:02.450 --> 01:58:23.200
So, looking at the adaptation of that and, how you may be missing that full picture, if you extract, or just look at maybe these colonial ways of knowledge dissemination, publication books, institutionalized knowledge, when really the, the... depth and full integrated, knowing within you is an embodied experience and it's something that, comes from... deep cultural and ancestral knowings, and sometimes that grief in wanting to repair that or knowing that there's a long process ahead of us, and taking, maybe, that rudimentary step of, maybe having technology online where we do have, lexicons available, knowing that that gets us one step closer to maybe connecting with... our home communities or with a diasporic... state of returning back to something and really connecting those puzzle pieces, knowing that it comes with a bit of pain but also really deep healing.
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Belinda Kwan: Thank you so much for that sharing, Lynx... and thank you all so much for being here with us today, that brings us to the end of our panel discussion. Thank you audience for joining us, and thank you to folks who tune in later, as well. There may be a little bit of a gap between now and when the podcast episode is published, but we appreciate y'all, for tuning in synchronously and asynchronously.
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So, if you want to keep track of what all our lovely panelists are doing, Samito has dropped a bunch of links in the chat. Samito, if you can drop FEZIHAUS link, FEZIHAUS' link into the chat as well. We are not against some reasonable self-promotion here. [chuckle] I'm just joking. I mean it's co-presented by FEZIHAUS, so you know of course we want to promote and, shout out Samito for doing significant, significant work on the podcast production side,
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and want to shout out Tangled Art + Disability as well for co-presenting the larger program context for this panel, Terra Firma. Tangled has been an important consultant to us, and to many folks across the arts, bridging important practical, but also theoretical, insights on how to improve accessibility throughout arts and culture and, across Turtle Island and beyond. So, I really hope that everyone can stay in touch, and please stay tuned until the next one. Analysts, if you could stay for a little bit after I end this recording to do a quick debrief. Take care everyone.